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Date: 12/2/2008 9:05:00 PM
From Authorid: 7830
in my opinion, circumsision is wrong in both girls and boys, but obviously the lastng effects are worse in girls.  |
Date: 12/2/2008 9:10:00 PM
From Authorid: 47218
I don't think circumcision is the right word for it. I think it's more akin to castration- which wouldn't fly with boys anymore than it does with girls. Yes, I'm all for the practice being abolished.  |
Date: 12/2/2008 9:17:00 PM
From Authorid: 20750
This was a religious choice, so in my opinion it should be banned for both males & females.  |
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Date: 12/2/2008 9:55:00 PM
From Authorid: 998
The male version of this, has a completely different origin and the outcome is actually the opposite of what happens to females. It's true that if the 'after effects' of what females experience from FGM, then circumcision would have never started for males. It is only because males started this, and it can't be equated to circumcision of a female. It is only mutilation, and it isn't just to keep women from pleasure. It is a way of manipulating women as possessions. The mutilation that these women endure interferes with many other parts of a woman's physiology. Causes horrific and permanent severe pain in childbirth and urination. Doctors and practitioners who do these procedures of FGM, are many times untrained or poorly trained. They use often times less than sanitary conditions and instruments, which cripple otherwise healthy women. This is only my take on this topic, from what I have read and seen of this barbaric treatment of young girls and women. I can't imagine anyone in America or civilized countries being in favor of FGM.  |
Date: 12/2/2008 11:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 62798
There should indeed be a ban. I realize for some reason this is a "cultural tradition"..but it is a blatant and disgusting human rights violation. Some things should not be saved. I could go on all night, but I think you get the point.  |
Date: 12/3/2008 12:06:00 AM
From Authorid: 63194
If cultural tradition means that any harm be put upon a person, then I say with no remorse, down with that culture. In my opinion, savagery is not culture.  |
Date: 12/3/2008 1:33:00 AM
From Authorid: 21266
I'm totally for it for the boys, for religious and hygiene reasons. Uncircumcised boys are 10 times more likely to develop a urinary tract infection. For the girls, NO WAY. I find no benefits in getting a girl "circumcised". It's absolutely inhumane.  |
Date: 12/3/2008 6:23:00 AM
From Authorid: 30093
I'm obviously against castration and genital mutilation. I also think circumcision is a way outdated practice and I don't agree with it myself. It may be less "sanitary", but only if the boy isn't taught hygiene.  |
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Date: 12/3/2008 8:50:00 AM
From Authorid: 38601
YES! It should definitely be absolutely banned. I don't even understand why it needs to be deliberated on. It affects females completely differently from the way it affects males...for males, it's almost nothing... For females, it's a life time of pain and discomfort...purely because they are female. It can lead to diseases because often the wounds are not properly cleansed and sewn up, and they can be reopened over time. It's a horrible procedure and someone needs to help these girls who are still being affected by it.  |
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Date: 12/3/2008 10:35:00 AM
From Authorid: 63194
I keep seeing "for males" and "for females" - please keep in mind what is done with FGM and what is done with circumcision are in no way the same and truly cannot even be compared. I will ad though that circumcision is likewise inhumane and only those without hygiene skills need worry about that 10 times more likely of UTI issue.. |
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Date: 12/3/2008 10:36:00 AM
From Authorid: 19613
Nanaki is correct. Male circumcision is only the more sanitary option for people who lack basic hygiene. It is mutilation of an infant and cannot be justified. Obviously FGM is much more abhorrent and ought to be prohibited.  |
Date: 12/3/2008 11:19:00 AM
From Authorid: 15070
Yes, FGM (female genital mutilation) should be banned.  |
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Date: 12/3/2008 3:09:00 PM
From Authorid: 1631
I really hate the idea of meddling in other people's religious and cultural beliefs, but FGM really is an awful practice. Not only is the reasoning behind it horribly oppressive, but the conditions under which the mutilations are performed are incredibly unsanitary which causes health complication in many females and even death. This is one situation where the HRO does need to intervene, IMO.  |
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Date: 12/3/2008 5:34:00 PM
From Authorid: 30093
This is one of the most disturbing convos I've had on usm |
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Date: 12/3/2008 8:29:00 PM
From Authorid: 64123
Circumcision isn't hygienically necessary for either sex. The origins of circumcision of both sexes were religious, cultural and psychological if anyone cares to do their homework. Male circumsision, just as female, partly originated to stop sexual stimulation. Hygiene was later introduced to excuse the practice with infant males. There are in fact, more infections in male offspring as a result of circumcision than there are from not circumsising. I won't go into gory details, not G rated, but very little is necessary to clean an uncircumsised boy. I don't agree with either practice and the tradition of FGM is especially disturbing. However, and quite sadly, FGM is a longstanding cultural ritual which is regarded with much honour and pride. While I think such traditions should and can be banned within individual countries because of child abuse laws, I doubt a ban could be effectively enforced in regions where the practice takes place. Another thing to consider is our cultural differences. While we frown and cringe at the thought, and while we recognize the damage inflicted, the people who perform these acts do not. They are meant to cleanse and purify, determine rank within cultures based on how extreme the act is etc. Outside influence banning their honoured traditions may be admirable to us, but places shame on those who's traditions we are impeding. Perhaps not right, but quite real. Its my opinion that we should ban the practice within our own countries, immigrants should absolutely be ready and willing to adopt our laws and moral expectations as well as land, but as far as I'm concerned..we need to quit butting our noses into other cultures and determining what is right or wrong for them. We may disagree, but its their culture, their nations and their traditions. Lets focus on our own backyard.  |
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Date: 12/4/2008 1:54:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
Well said, Purple Skies. I will just add a prayer here, though: God Help them in their ignorance. As to the rest of the conversation, I will just say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. God Bless.  |
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Date: 12/4/2008 9:24:00 PM
From Authorid: 64123
Vulnerable to what? What we perceive as wrong? My point was that when people are raised within these cultures, as they have been, such acts are not perceived as harmful, abusive etc. They're seen as the norm, and are regarded with high respect. Should international law intervene, where then does that leave the women who we're protecting? Safe from the physical harm/mutilation we disagree with, but shamed within her family, village and void of worth that her religion and culture has dictated. Again, I disagree with the act for both sexes, but there is much more to consider than our simplistic western view. You cannot change perceptions, beliefs and traditions by banning a certain practice. Nor do I expect everyone to understand the differences of our mindsets. Though not as extreme, consider this...We see the practice of FGM as disgusting and abusive. Now look at the acceptance of adultery in our western cultures, acceptance of divorce, disrespect of parents and family as a whole. While not physical mutilation, these acts are considered in other cultures to be reason for execution, would push an individual to suicide because they find it sickening and the shame it would bring them would be unbearable. But even if we might say its wrong, our societies as a whole, have condoned it, have accepted it and such acts, have become the norm for us. I guess what I'm trying to get across is that when considering issues internationally like this, we have to be very clear as to whether or not we're really helping or just disrupting without fully understanding the long term effects. All the while, our own nations are going down the pot morally. |
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Date: 12/6/2008 1:32:00 AM
From Authorid: 63194
Whether or not our "nations are going down the pot morally" is probably up for its own debate. I highly disagree with that statement, but I would dare say "Morals are in the eyes of the beholder," just as is beauty. Western culture is simplistic? Western culture is, in my opinion, getting closer to perfection over time. There are setbacks along the way, I agree, but we do learn from those set backs.. We have immense equality all across the board - though many sections of that "board" still have some kinks that need to be worked out. Those kinks range from gay rights to minority discrimination. I do think we can all agree that all of these things issues have made progress. To me, if any harm is imposed upon a child, that is not acceptable and no culture can justify it. It is not a matter of western minded folk being simplistic or unwilling to accept things that are "different". It isn't a matter of us trying to change things to fit our liking and our understanding. Our desire (as western folk) is to bring people into THE ENLIGHTENMENT that so many cultures (particularly those that are oppressed by religion) seem to have missed out on. To mutilate the genitals of a child is perverse. To justify it as acceptable because it is right within a culture is also perverse. To in any way defend a culture that condones and practices such things is, sorry to say, perverse. Now, I do agree that western folk do have a tendency to overstep their bounds. We have seen this in many cases and we have seen the damage that it can cause. We have seen that there is large ignorance among western folk. But there is ignorance among all peoples of this world. What needs to be understood is that the action that MUST occur in order to stop this disgusting practice (and many other practices) is not a matter of western folk trying to impose their views on another. This is about HUMANS not imposing but educating about our HUMAN rights to live freely and make decisions about OURSELVES and what we will be subject to. Confusing? The point therein is that to make a decision such as to mutilate the genitals is a decision that must be made by an adult about their own body. Any parent who does this to their child is a parent who I would show no remorse in seeing sentenced to death. I am radical in that sense, I guess. You mentioned that many of the practices in the western culture would be cause for execution in other cultures, and I understand that. What I would like to remind you is that the vast majority of those practices that would lead to executions are generally actions "performed" by adults. The decisions may be damaging sometimes, but they are decisions made by adults. Premarital sex would lead to the execution of someone in a many other cultures. But tell me how premarital sex is CERTAIN to cause as much harm to a person as something like genital mutilation? Homosexuality (specifically acts thereof) would lead to the execution of someone in many other cultures, but do tell me how it is CERTAIN to cause as much harm to a person as genital mutilation? These things, among many thousands of other things, CAN harm people. Yes, someone could be harmed by premarital sex, or homosexual sex, bisexual sex or heterosexual sex. A person can also be harmed by walking out to get the mail. All things we do in life can lead to harm, but it is those things that we INTENTIONALLY do to the human body that MUTILATE it that absolutely MUST NOT be accepted in any culture, especially if that harm is put upon the body of someone who does not even have the capacity to make the decision regarding self-harm. |
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Date: 12/6/2008 3:10:00 AM
From Authorid: 63194
"it" is there for a reason, and, believe it or not, serves an effective purpose, the most important of all starts with protection of a very sensitive area - sensitivity is significantly lost due to circumcision in most cases. The justification for it to remain: babies are born with it. The only time you remove something from the body is when it becomes defective. And yes, that part can become defective. So, if it does, then you remove it or otherwise repair it. It is not unhygienic. It IS however something that needs to be taken care of as a part of a regular hygiene routine. |
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Date: 12/6/2008 9:49:00 AM
From Authorid: 62798
There are vast cultural differences. However, if the people were educated and shown what this actually does to the women---excuse me girls..involved in this repulsive right or ritual or whatever..maybe they would stop. Change by education an dgentle persuasion is best. |
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Date: 12/6/2008 12:07:00 PM
From Authorid: 62798
I am one of the most PC people...however I do agree this is a blatant human rights violation. The reason these things continue is plain and simple ignorance and oppression. I do not believe that it is acceptable to brush it off as "cultural tradition" and let it continue. It could be said Jewish genocide was a German cultural tradition...but look what we FINALLY did in WW2. The point is..we can't pick and choose which horrors to let continue. We are NOT perfect, but we are in a position to educate, to help. I am not talking barging in with tanks, I am not talking about demonizing religions. Just plain compassion and understanding. You live the life of one of those mutilated women...and you tell me they want this to happen. It is not honorable to be mutilated. I know we can't and shouldn't change everything about every culture...but we need to try and help humanity as a whole...here in the US and elsewhere. |
| Date: 12/6/2008 1:01:00 PM ( Admin-5 ) The topic is FGM. Comments not related to the contents of this story post by the author, have been removed. (hairy armpits, hygiene issues of male circumcision). It must also be noted, not all comments have been deleted by this admin. |
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Date: 12/7/2008 2:57:00 AM
From Authorid: 21266
lol and by unrelated comments of course you mean mine. i now remember why i stopped participating in debates a very long time ago. |
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Date: 12/7/2008 2:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 19613
My point is simply that just because different standards of morality exist in different regions of the world does not mean that each of those standards should be respected equally. Some are quite simply better than others and should be promoted without ignoring local customs but without being beholden to them either. |
Date: 12/11/2008 8:51:00 PM
From Authorid: 16671
I'm with you it should be banned and whom ever tries doing this to another should go to jail. Its just makes me sick to know that its done in other countries and against their will.  |
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56297 Category:(Debate) Created:(12/2/2008 8:48:00 PM)